Omaha hi/lo - The Donk Edition

As many people know, I don’t want to keep this blog as a poker-only blog. I’m certainly no poker expert, and there are so many non-poker donkeys out there that there should be material around every corner. This entry, however, is heavy into the poker and the math surrounding poker.

The game here is Omaha hi/lo, known as Omaha/8 or simply O8. Each person gets 4 hole cards and the board is dealt like holdem. In this game, the high hand and the low hand split the pot. The goal of course is to get a hand that can win both the high and low ends of the pot. This is called scooping the pot.

Now, I’m no O8 expert. I typically play small O8 tournaments, or limit games up to $2/$4. The site I was playing on didn’t have any good games available, but they had a $.25/$.50 game going, so I decided to waste some time playing that, and work on my game and hand reading skills in general. Things were uneventful until the following hand came up. I don’t have the greatest hand in the world, but I’m getting feisty, so I decide to play along with it, fully expecting to miss the flop completely and grab the remote to find something better on tv.

FullTiltPoker Game #200028780: Table Bermuda - $0.25/$0.50 - Limit Omaha Hi/Lo - 23:34:13 ET - 2005/08/28
Seat 1: rdwright ($1.90)
Seat 2: bsailor ($3.15)
Seat 3: KssMyBUHHIND ($4.65)
Seat 4: rgpars ($10.95)
Seat 6: rageatm9 ($10.30), is sitting out
Seat 7: XaQ Morphy ($8.05)
Seat 8: Vicki429 ($10.10)
Seat 9: RollStep ($9.75)
RollStep posts the small blind of $0.10
rdwright posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #8
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to XaQ Morphy [2h Td Ah 8s]
bsailor calls $0.25
KssMyBUHHIND calls $0.25
rgpars calls $0.25
XaQ Morphy calls $0.25
Vicki429 calls $0.25
RollStep raises to $0.50
rdwright folds
bsailor calls $0.25
KssMyBUHHIND calls $0.25
rgpars raises to $0.75
XaQ Morphy raises to $1
Vicki429 folds
RollStep calls $0.50
bsailor calls $0.50
rgpars: action
KssMyBUHHIND folds
rgpars calls $0.25
*** FLOP *** [4s 5h 7h]
RollStep bets $0.25
bsailor calls $0.25
rgpars has 15 seconds left to act
XaQ Morphy: I like putting all my quarters out there
rgpars is sitting out
rgpars has timed out
rgpars folds
XaQ Morphy raises to $0.50
RollStep raises to $0.75
rgpars has returned
bsailor raises to $1
XaQ Morphy calls $0.50
RollStep calls $0.25
*** TURN *** [4s 5h 7h] [Th]
RollStep bets $0.50
bsailor calls $0.50
XaQ Morphy raises to $1
RollStep raises to $1.50
bsailor calls $0.65, and is all in
XaQ Morphy raises to $2
RollStep calls $0.50
*** RIVER *** [4s 5h 7h Th] [3s]
RollStep checks
XaQ Morphy bets $0.50
RollStep calls $0.50
rgpars: omg
*** SHOW DOWN ***
XaQ Morphy shows [2h Td Ah 8s] (a flush, Ace high)
*** SHOW DOWN ***
(5,4,3,2,A)
RollStep shows [8d Jh Qh 6d] (a flush, Queen high)
(8,6,5,4,3)
XaQ Morphy wins the high side pot ($1.35) with a flush, Ace high
XaQ Morphy wins the low side pot ($1.35) with 5,4,3,2,A
bsailor mucks
XaQ Morphy wins the high main pot ($5.50) with a flush, Ace high
XaQ Morphy wins the low main pot ($5.45) with 5,4,3,2,A
bsailor is sitting out
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $14.15 Main pot $11.45. Side pot $2.70. Rake $0.50
Board: [4s 5h 7h Th 3s]
Seat 1: rdwright (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 2: bsailor mucked [Ks 9h 2d 3h] - HI: a flush, Ten high; LO: 7,5,4,3,2
Seat 3: KssMyBUHHIND folded before the Flop
Seat 4: rgpars folded on the Flop
Seat 6: rageatm9 is sitting out
Seat 7: XaQ Morphy showed [2h Td Ah 8s] and won ($13.65) with HI: a flush, Ace high; LO: 5,4,3,2,A
Seat 8: Vicki429 (button) folded before the Flop
Seat 9: RollStep (small blind) showed [8d Jh Qh 6d] and lost with HI: a flush, Queen high; LO: 8,6,5,4,3

Basically, I flopped the nut low hand, and on the turn I hit the nut flush. Unless the board pairs on the river (which it didn’t), I’m guaranteed the high half of the pot, and unless someone else has A2 in their hand, I get the low side of the pot too. The chat that follows is priceless:

XaQ Morphy: scoooooooooooooooooooop
RollStep: f-ing bs
XaQ Morphy: lol
RollStep: u got lucky
RollStep: nice hand
XaQ Morphy: lololol
XaQ Morphy: you played QJ86?
XaQ Morphy: and I got lucky?
RollStep: i flopped a straight and a flush draw
XaQ Morphy: that's hilarious
RollStep: doubled suited
XaQ Morphy: lol
RollStep: omg... ok poker god
RollStep: sit here and play quarter 50
RollStep: and pretend ur some pro
RollStep: youre ridiculous
XaQ Morphy: hey, I didn't say that was bs
XaQ Morphy: and I never said I was some pro
XaQ Morphy: just that I took all your lunch money

An ongoing joke in the poker world is when donkeys uses the excuse “it was suited” when explaining why they played a particular hand. Since you get 4 cards in Omaha, a hand that is “double suited” is much more desirable. However, QJ86 is a terrible hand in Omaha (I won’t go into reasons why in this post, just trust me on this), double suited or not. So the chat continues:

RollStep: nQJ86
RollStep: like its not a good hand
RollStep: double suited
RollStep: family pot
RollStep: go back to reading ur books
RollStep: ur A2810 is crap compaired to my cards
RollStep: not even single suited
RollStep: and u think its better than mine in a family pot
RollStep: go run the numbers on it doyle brunson
XaQ Morphy: if it's not single suited, how did I get a flush?
RollStep: see whose odds are better
RollStep: i meant double
XaQ Morphy: you do realize that no hand in omaha is more than a 60/40 favorite preflop right?
XaQ Morphy: and that playing a non-nut flush is suicide in omaha?
RollStep: youre a moron
RollStep: playing a non flush is suicide
RollStep: non nut

My comments here are true. Omaha is a much different game than holdem. Because of the 4 hole cards and the combinations possible for each hand, no hand is more than about a 60/40 favorite over another hand pre-flop. Also, Omaha is known as the “game of the nuts.” Playing a non-nut hand (flush, straight, etc.) at a full table is begging to have your chips taken away from you. Notice that the donkey now starts in with the name-calling. This is typical from people that don’t know what they are talking about, yet refuse to listen to reason, aka, your typical donkey.

So, I went to a popular poker odds internet site, www.twodimes.net and ran the hands through to figure out the odds. Not surprisingly, MY hand was the one that came out to be a 60/40 favorite pre-flop. Note that twodimes.net is a very accurate, and very popular site used by poker players around the world.

XaQ Morphy: http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1185354
XaQ Morphy: and look there
RollStep: yeah, some dumb internet site
XaQ Morphy: my hand was a 60/40 favorite over yours preflop there sparky
RollStep: real official
XaQ Morphy: lol
RollStep: hey idiot
RollStep: heads up maybe
RollStep: but we werent heads up
RollStep: why dont u rin the numbers individual on a 8 hand basis

Ok, so our donkey here tries to make a point. The problem is, hands in poker typically diminish in value against multiple opponents. For example, AA is the best starting hand in holdem, and is a huge favorite (at least 80%) over any other single hand. However, put AA up against 5 other hands, and it is less than 50% to win. I don’t know the exact numbers for our donkey friend here, but if I ran his hand against 8 others, I imagine his would be close to last in possible in percentage.

XaQ Morphy: why? to show how much worse your hand is?
RollStep: dumba.zzz trying to be smart
RollStep: yeah, run the numbers see how they stack
XaQ Morphy: dude, there's the proof...read it, or stfu
XaQ Morphy: I'll tell you what
RollStep: dude, aces heads up is 80/20 to almost any hand
RollStep: run it against 8 people
XaQ Morphy: hahaha
RollStep: and its less than 30%
RollStep: u moron
XaQ Morphy: this isn't holdem there sparky
RollStep: did u know everyones cards before the
RollStep: i dont think so
RollStep: Im proving a point u idiot
RollStep: ur a moron XaQ
RollStep: and when u smarten up we can talk
XaQ Morphy: the point is you played a hand that had zero chance at a nut low, and very little chance at a nut high
RollStep: but till then keep living in your fantasy land of wrongly calculated poker odds
XaQ Morphy: lol
XaQ Morphy: where do you suggest I calculate them then, if the most widely used odds site on the internet isn't good enough?
RollStep: zero chance at a nut low
RollStep: ur and idiot
RollStep: i had zero chance
RollStep: with my two low cards
XaQ Morphy: do you understand what a nut low is?

I received no reply to this. Our donkey decides that's either too hard of a question for him, or he sneezed and one of his braincells fell under his desk, so he's trying to find it. Donkeys will continue to be donkeys, and even when the facts are shown to them, they still can’t avoid being donkeys.

Sorry for the heavy poker content in this one; I’ll try to get something more general next time.

Morphy